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Interview with Northern Song Dynasty

Northern Song Dynasty is Jessica Bailiff and Jesse Edwards (Red Morning Chorus). Involved in individual projects, they started to write music and record together in 1999. It took them three years to complete the album, the only record of their harmony up till now. The passing of time and the ensuing seasons influenced the shape, structure, sensitivity, and the lyrical content of what we hear enclosed on the disc. Psychodelic yet languorous pop suffused with hues of folk hovers about the music of Northern Song Dynasty almost like mist. We invited them to an interview and here's what they told us.

The interview took place towards the end of November 2008. The translation was prepared by Maribelle. Polish version of the interview can be found in the fourth issue of Diamenta Princessa. Here, I would like to thank Maribelle for her continuous work, determination and valuable comments.

While reading, we highly recommend to listen to the Northern Song Dynasty album.

Listening to your album, one can't escape the feeling that some of the tracks sound very much like the more vintage songs by Low. Saving a Lost Soul from the Cold of the Night might as well have been a hidden track on their I Could Live in Hope. There is much profundity in your music. Was Jessica's style the main influence, or was it rather that both of you felt the same about the music you were making together?

Jessica: ...I feel that we came together as Northern Song Dynasty to make something different from what either one of us had been creating at the time (or before), or at least to come together to make music that was us, together. Those songs would not have been what they are without the profound influence we had on each other, in every way, at the time.

Jesse: Prior to the birth of Northern Song Dynasty, I played guitar for most of the Jessica Bailiff shows in support of her first two albums. We opened for Low on a few dates on their Secret Name tour. After our set, I vividly remember watching Low perform Violence from the balcony of the 7th House in Pontiac, Michigan. This was very important moment for me; the beauty & grace displayed by Al, Zak, & Mim was overwhelming. To this day, I don't think minimal slow paced pop music can be any better than a song like Shame.

Jessica & I were working on some of my home recordings which were released on cassette as the.dithering.effect, Shortly afterwards we recorded the 10" record Jessica Bailiff w/ the.dithering.effect for Resonant (UK), which in my opinion is another overlooked gem & good glimpse of pre-Northern Song Dynasty.

I remember almost from the very beginning we had intentions of starting a proper band together that was outside either of our other projects. Its true that we shared many goals & certain aesthetic principles. On a few occasions we had formal meetings & we discussed our favorite music & what we wanted to achieve. From these conversations Northern Song Dynasty was born.

We were really specific in our influences & they show themselves well on the Northern Song Dynasty album. His Name Is Alive, Low, Spiritualized, Slowdive, My Bloody Valentine, Red House Painters, Flying Saucer Attack, Boards of Canada... I don't mind admitting these bands along with 60's folk music were among our references.

We started recording one NSD song at Low's house which we weren't able to complete.

Also, for a short time we recruited a couple of friends that played with us but I think I gave up on playing the songs live after only a few performances.

When and how did you meet, and who was it that got the idea of the cooperation?

Jessica: ...Jesse introduced himself to me via the internet, back around the release of my first album. I asked if he could be part of my live band, as Jessica Bailiff. While rehearsing my songs, he'd asked if I could add parts to some of his recordings. These were not NSD, however. We kind of fell into having our own band together, and had grand ideas of making it the focal point of both of our lives. But we had a very hard time finding other band members, permanent ones. We really wanted to tour, and we needed more than just the two of us.

Jesse: Toledo, Ohio is a small city but for a short time in the 90's it had a bit of a shoegaze scene. I loved bands like Xebec, Astrobrite, & Majesty Crush, who would often visit from Detroit.

I was fairly obsessed with the idea of being in a texture oriented band with real songs. When I read that Jessica was releasing an album on Kranky I immediately sought her out. I was forward with my intentions & I shared some of my recordings with her. As it happens she needed help for an upcoming show in Chicago with Casino versus Japan. Despite some strange challenges our performance went well; this proved to us both that we could successfully work together. We continued to pursue music & support each other's musical ambitions.

Jessica said: it is a house, a very large house that once belonged to a prominent & rich family in the area (fortunate with the automobile revolution in the early 1900's, as where I live is not far from Detroit & they had a business supplying spark plugs for cars), now it is on public land (a large nature reserve) and is open for tours as an historical landmark. I have visited this place (the park more than the house) often since I was a child.
Photo: Melinda E. Sabo (copyright 2006)

Although the album is named after the northern dynasty of Song, I cannot hear any echos of Far Eastern music on it. Is it just a word-play? If the suicidal death of the last emperor of the Song dynasty had nothing to do with the naming of your album, then what your true inspiration was?

Jessica: ...We were just looking for a band name we could live with, and we stumbled across that one. There was the element of word play that was appealing, as well as the mysteriousness of it. It had nothing to do with our music, really.

Jesse: Woah, actually I don't know too much about the Northern Dynasty of Song, & I'm unaware of the last emperor's tragic story. We certainly didn't taken any inspiration from that... Personally, I don't think suicide is noble & I'm frustrated that the public often highly regards troubled artists that decide to stop struggling & end their life. I think we should be most supportive of the people who never give up. Those are the people I admire... Somebody like Jackson C Frank, whose life was filled with terrible fortune. His face should be on the US dollar bill.

The name "Northern Song Dynasty" is a bit deeper than just a play on words. Most of what we know about the dynasty comes from art books. Artisans of the Northern Song era were heavily influenced by nature & we felt a strong kinship with them in these regards. While the sounds come from modern western culture, the philosophies behind the album are very eastern.

The album opens & ends with the sound of a stream & birds that I recorded on a portable cassette machine at, Wildwood, a local park. The idea was to take the listener through all four seasons - Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, then leave them at the start of Spring again for a fresh start.

Other nature themes are prominent throughout the album as well. Also, I know Iker Spozio purposely colored the woman on the sleeve blue taking inspiration from Hindu art where the Gods & Goddesses are often depicted in that hue.

Directly after the Northern Song Dynasty album, I started experimenting with Eastern music & sounds, studying Classical Indian music under an Indian music guru. I played sitar, tabla, & dilruba on many of the Red Morning Chorus recordings & played sitar on the untitled Jessica Bailiff album on Kranky.

Was the creation of the background music for the tracks a completely controlled and organised process? Sometimes I have a feeling that the sounds just came into being from their own will, creating new, unpredictable harmonies, just as it happens in nature.

Jessica: ...That is a very poetic thought! The songs probably came to be on their own. Songs often have a way of coming to you, somehow. But as they are recorded, they are shaped into something, much like a sculpture. Jesse did take a lot of time to shape each sound that makes up each song.

Jesse: I wrote many songs during this time period which was filled with emotional turmoil due to personal & family issues. Jessica would encourage me on the ones that stuck in her head or had an immediate impact. She usually had ideas for these & would add her parts & ideas as necessary. About 85% of the album was produced in this fashion. We worked very closely throughout the entire process.

Recording & mixing was a long process as we were just getting into producing our own music on computers and wanted to explore the possibilities. Some of the sounds & textures were spontaneous while others are techniques that we had been honing & experimenting with for years.

I think that the cover graphics is absolutely brilliant ("Woman emerges from the sea to spark the light of the sun"). It was created by your friend Iker Spozio from Ptolemaic Terrascope zine. Do you know whether he was influenced by your music while working on it, or maybe it was something else? I am curious to know that because I think that the music of NSD can really bring in inspiration and influence a certain kind of artistic expression.

Jessica: ...Iker is a great artist, I feel lucky he was able to create the cover art. Jesse would know more exactly, but I do believe that Iker is in the habit of listening to the music as he is creating an album cover, so I believe he also did this with NSD.

Jesse: Though he never played the guitar or sang harmony, one could easily say Iker was an actual band member of Northern Song Dynasty. All three of us shared much in common in terms of musical & artistic tastes. He received early mixes of the songs but whether these directly influenced his work I'm not certain.

What is Your opinion on the changing/evolution of one's music with each new album? Some people think it is good if a band introduces something new to their music everytime it releases an album (take, for a decent example, Jesus and Mary Chain - the band that fairly quickly let off steam and moved on to other music realms). Others say that a band should stick to one style, one characteristic mode of expression, perfect it, and make this mode their brand. You want a specific style, you turn to a band whose music is fairly predictable (i.e. their style does not change so much), like Xiu Xiu - and you will find no major surprises (though their style is a surprise in itself). What do you, as musicians, think about such attitudes to change and musical evolution?

Jessica: ...As an artist it's more fulfilling, for me, to explore and to change. I do feel a slower evolution can be more conducive to maintaining one's own style, or rather help one be true to one's own style, or the true self. I don't believe in forcing change, because it can sound forced, unnatural. But change is natural, necessary and unavoidable. What one person perceives as radical change between albums for a band, another might see it as the next logical step in the band's natural evolution.

Jessica in spring 2006

Jesse: Good & bad albums can be created both ways - by sticking to a formula, or by growing in response to new inspirations. It's tricky...

I remember when His Name Is Alive released Stars on ESP, I was really disappointed that it didn't sound like Home Is In Your Head, or the early albums. Then after many repeated listens, it became apparent that it was by far their best album & a genuine masterpiece - a true modern classic. Then they made a dramatic shift into RnB on the following albums, & I wasn't too keen on those records.

Likewise, perhaps some NSD fans may be disappointed when they hear my new album as Red Morning Chorus. I'm the kind of person that's very obsessive and just can't help but react to the things that I'm in love with... & I'm always looking through that lense of the things I admire, which is something that can change drastically from day-to-day. Maintaining consistency can be difficult, but I don't think that consistency should necessarily always be the goal.

In 2002, your new joint project appeared under the name of Red Morning Chorus, in 2003 Jessica and David Pearce (Flying Saucer Attack) released as Clear Horizon. 2006 brought Brian John Mitchell's Vlor (excitement and freedom of music made with friends, which featured yourself and Jessica among the friends). Can we hope for another album by Northern Song Dynasty, or for any other fruit of your cooperation, whatever the name be? In other words, are you considering the possibility of releasing another joint album in the future?

Jessica: ...There are no plans right now, but we had always hoped to one day do another Northern Song Dynasty album together. Who knows what the future holds.

Jesse: While we haven't received much recognition, Northern Song Dynasty was the beginning of our explorations blending slow tempo folk music with modern textures. I believe we were & are true pioneers in these regards.

Though there has only been one album released as Northern Song Dynasty, Jessica & I have worked on many projects together. NSD has lived on through recordings released as Jessica Bailiff, Red Morning Chorus, the Odd Nosdam collaborations, Rivulets, & we even played guitar & percussion on a His Name Is Alive EP, Firefly Dragonfly.

Currently we are working separately without any future plans, however, I imagine fruits from previous years will slowly ripen & surface over time. Jessica recently mentioned that the James Joyce - Chamber Music piece contributed to the Fire Records comp should have been credited to Northern Song Dynasty.

Jessica also helped on some Red Morning Chorus songs. I have a full length prepared called Love & Bird Song. I've been working on it since we finished Northern Song Dynasty. At the moment, I'm looking for a good record label to release it as I feel it is my most accomplished album to date.

Judging from the number of albums you recorded together and with other musicians it is clear you feel great working with various musicians and exploring different music styles. This question does not need an answer.

Jesse: It's important to remain as open-minded as possible but one must wisely chose when to shine their creative light; it's not often that I decide to work with another artist.

I was really thrilled when we worked with David Madson / Odd Nosdam, the first cLOUDDEAD album is one of my all-time favorite Hip Hop albums. It's Hip-Hop for someone like me, who doesn't come from Hip-Hop culture, but likes to look at everything through a prism.

Music is surely not the only form of your self-expression... What else is there?

Jessica: ...Jesse has a great pair of eyes, and has a knack for visual art. He created and designed the cover for my last solo release, Old Things, released by Morc. Me, I have a background in visual art (painting, ceramics, photography), but have not really been inspired to create in this way for a long time. I do have yearnings to work with clay again, and have seriously considered returning to drawing, but have spent time outside of work or music studying french and yoga.

Jesse: Making scones & chocolate nut spread similar to the varieties discovered in Belgium. I also enjoy collage, experimental photography, graphic design, & recently I started making small handmade books made from my photographs & collages. One can see my design & collage work on Jessica Bailiff Old Things - Morc (Gent, Belgium), as well as the sleeves & designs for Red Morning Chorus.

My next big project is a couch for our living room; we are hoping to design & fabricate some of our own furniture.

Jessica, what does "Figure Eight" mean? How does it exactly look like? Is it some kind of reference to the meditation technique?

Jessica: "Figure Eight" has many meanings for me. It came to mind when I watched the film that the song I composed, For Jonathan (Figure Eight)*, was made for. It was a soundtrack to some film footage of someone named Jonathan who was terminally ill, and has since passed. He (and I think one or 2 friends) were sliding around on the ice, without skates. They were having a lot of fun. Figure Eight is a pattern in ice skating, where you go around the shape of the number eight. If you turn the number eight on its side, it becomes a symbol for infinity, a googol.

* The film For Jonathan is about Jonathan Hicks, who was diagnosed DSRCT cancer and died at 23. The film was made by his friend and producer, Chris Bennett. Bennett sent the 8mm recording to a number of musicians he held in high esteem. That is how the two-CD album came to life. It contains 18 instrumental tracks tuned in with the images. Potomac Accord, Unwed Sailor, Her Space Holiday, Early Day Miners, The Album Leaf, Wow & Flutter were all among the participants of the project. It is Jessica Bailiff's track that closes the whole album.

Jessica, could you tell me something more about your work on Cave-In and split album with Erik Kowalski (Casino versus Japan)? After all, he makes music that is so different from your own.

Jessica: Cave-In was actually recorded and performed with Alan Sparhawk of the band Low, at their home studio. The record label that released it, StarStarStereo, had asked if I'd like to do a split single with Casino vs Japan, and I said yes. We had recently performed on the same night at a club in Chicago, and had all met (Erik, Mike from the label, and me) that night. The song I did is a version of the song by Codeine. My track and Casino vs Japan's track are entities of their own, actually, brought together on one piece of vinyl.

In Spiral Dream (song from the album Feels Like Home) one can hear Russian words... What do they mean exactly, and why have you included them in this song?

Jessica: My dear friend, Melinda, was once a Peace Corps volunteer in Moldova. She taught English to students aged 13-17, I believe. The summer I was in the middle of making Feels Like Home, 2005, a student of hers called Nelly and her friend Iulia, came to visit. The three of them came to my flat one evening with a bottle of Moldovan wine. The two girls, I think they were 20 or 21 at the time, were so full of life, so much fun.

At one point, they began singing all sorts of songs, and Melinda would join in on some, as she knew some of the languages (Russian, Romanian, etc). They began singing this beautifully sad song in Russian, and I asked if I could record them. They were excited about it, very much. When I was testing the sound level in the microphone, they even sang a Rolling Stones song, it was cute. I asked them what the words meant, and they described the song as words from someone who desperately wanted to leave her lover, but had a hard time doing so. They told me something like, "When I leave, I will tell you..." I don't know all of the words, or even the name of the song. We recorded maybe half a dozen songs that the young ladies sang that night. And really, I intended to do it only as a keepsake for them, as a memory of our evening together, and of the time spent here visiting. It was later that I realised that the one song in Russian seemed to tie in perfectly with my song, Spiral Dream, as it had similar themes. Russian can be a beautiful language, especially when sung by two charming young ladies. Nelly and Iulia have reverence for the language for reasons that involve poetry and literature, and I believe they were meant to learn it at school. I don't know the language at all, but one of my favorite poets, Anna Akhmatova, was Russian. Obviously, I only know her work from English translation.

Jessica B & Jesse Edwards, Nijmegen, 2006 (photo: M. Anderson)

Sometimes I have a feeling that you are smiling while you sing, Jessica. I think so especially when I'm listening to Swallowed (from Jessica Bailiff album) or For April (from Old Things). The song seems sad, but deep inside it is very warm. It's just like in Manic Street Preachers' My Little Empire, where they sing "(...) I'm happy being sad". I think I'm subconsciously looking for that kind of emotions in music myself, and I found it both on Northern Song Dynasty's album and on your solo releases. I guess you like positive melancholy.

Jessica: You have a beautiful imagination! Actually, especially back then, I was probably telling myself the whole time I was singing, "don't mess it up!" rather than smiling. I am always looking for warmth, and maybe there is always an undercurrent of hope in a bad feeling or bad situation I might be singing about. But sometimes love songs come across as dark from me because of the mood of the music, like with Hour of the Traces on the third album. Really, I just go with what comes naturally to me, although I wish I did challenge myself more, both lyrically and musically, when I create.

It goes without saying that your Northern Song Dynasty album is a really good one! What is the recipe for such soothing tracks as "Seizures" or "Tromba D'aria", for the mellow sounds of "Those Days", or noisy and distinctive "Circle Road"? Is it the cooperation between a man and a woman?

Jessica: ...I'm very happy that you enjoy the album, it means a lot to us. There is no real recipe for these songs. They were a product of our coming together, certainly. They reflect, both in lyrics and sounds, our life at the time. Our roles were very different in the band, and honestly, Jesse should be credited for much of what the album is. I was always really proud of how it turned out, and I think looking back, he is now, too.

Jesse: I think the songs are just reflections of our personalities. Almost like a sonic photograph, if someone or something could have turned us into soundwaves in 2000-2001, you'd have these songs.

I wish you ever new colours and sounds filling in your space. I feel honoured you let me into your music sphere. Thank you.

Jessica: Thanks for the interview, I hope these answers have been helpful to you! And I am also honored to have crossed paths with you, and to have had a peek into your creative world.

Jessica Bailiff's myspace
myspace.com/jessicabailiff

Jesse Edwards' as Red Morning Chorus myspace
myspace.com/redmorningchorus

Iker Spozio's myspace
flickr.com/photos/ikerspozio

Northern Song Dynasty's myspace
myspace.com/northernsongdynasty

Above: Jesse Edwards' polaroids.

First published:December 2008
Original source of publication: Diamenta Princessa #4, page 9

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